SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hello and welcome to Talking Cards with Grand Salami and the Juice. We have a special episode for you today. I am here with my co-host Bert. How are you doing, Bert? I'm doing good.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

How are you, man?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

I'm doing good. Thanks. So, the reason why this episode is special, it is the first ever non-baseball episode. We are going to be talking about 25 to 26 Bowman basketball. And this product has really shown itself so far and so quickly, all of a sudden, what feels like out of nowhere to be such an exciting product.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

And cool, yeah. I mean, you always kind of wondered what where they were going to go with Bowman University once Fanatics got the licenses for football and basketball. And now it all kind of makes sense, doesn't it? You know, they're they're trying, I think they're going in the direction of wanting to create a product that is very similar in nature to the Bowman baseball product. And what better way to do that than add rookies and veterans, just like in Bowman baseball? You know, I think Bowman, by nature, its brand is very prospect-oriented and it's always going to be prospect forward. In Major League Baseball, of course, that means once a player is drafted to a team, and with the wonderful Photoshop things we can do, usually it's their first card in a major league team uniform. But we don't have that same luxury in foot in football and basketball. Guys will go straight to the league and immediately have their rookie cards. There's no such thing as a, you know, a first Bowman of a guy in a pro uniform in the NBA. We get that in college. So yeah, I think kind of melding the two together, elevating the Bowman University brand by including rookies and vets is a huge shakeup. It makes so much sense that they're doing it, though. I think it's gonna have significant effect on that on the Bowman University market, both good and bad, I think, depending on where you're sitting. And uh yeah, it's it's big news. I think it's gonna be really, really interesting to follow.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So, first, I want to give you the information that you need to know and what is available. So the product is set to be available for pre-order on March 24th. That is a Tuesday at 12 o'clock Eastern time. Be ready. We don't have a ton of details yet. There's no checklist, there's no odds, there's no pricing. But the big thing, as you mentioned, this was Top's official statement, is for the first time ever, Bowman basketball will include officially licensed NCAA men's and women's, by the way, basketball and NBA trading cards in the same pack.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

It's gonna be a crazy break, isn't it? You're gonna have to price out all the NBA teams, you're gonna have to price out all the colleges or all the different players, depending on how you're doing it. But yeah, it's gonna be wild. We've never seen anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

So they did say it's gonna be a 200-card base set and a 100-card prospect base set. Total checklist for the base cards, 300.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So 200 NBA and one when 100 college?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Oh, okay. I expected the reverse. Yeah, same. Uh, but yeah, this this really changes things. It makes it feel like Bowman baseball, not Bowman draft, flagship Bowman. The players not drafted yet, like you said, are still gonna be in their college unis. So you may not, you're not gonna see the same premium for a first Bowman of a player in basketball as you would for a first Bowman of a player in baseball that's still going to be reserved for the rookie cards. The market can change. I can't say that with a hundred with 100% certainty, but I'm pretty damn sure that's how it's gonna go just based on what we've seen in the past. But this product has been elevated. It's gonna get a ton more exposure than these past releases. This is gonna be in your face. They really took Bowman for basketball and figured out what to do with it in a big way. And it's gonna come onto the scene and everyone's gonna be clamoring for it, I think.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, I mean, the first thing that you think of is, oh, they're introducing Bowman to basketball, right? To professional basketball. So are they gonna follow the same script as they do with baseball with three flagship releases Bowman, Bowman Chrome, and some kind of draft? And I'm not sure that they will. Like even just thinking about this product, I'm I'm wondering, is it gonna be more like Bowman Chrome than it is like Bowman baseball? Because of course, one of the things that you got to know about Bowman baseball is that you're not gonna have um, you're not gonna have chrome color for the veterans and the rookies. You have to wait until Bowman Chrome to get your gold refractor or red refractor of a rookie. If I were to guess, I would say that they probably go a little bit more the Bowman Chrome route. And knowing that they have 200 pros and 100, only 100 college players makes me think that that's probably the case, that it'll be more a lot more like Bowman Chrome than it'll be like regular Bowman.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

There's gonna be so many similarities but differences at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

There is paper, right? Like they've shown paper.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

And is it the retro, the isn't there a Bill Russell paper first?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yes, there there is a Bill Russell first Bowman. Yeah, they they will have those retro Bowman.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

So the retrofractor they have in paper, which is also kind of unique.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

The retrofracture of Bill Russell is Chrome. And it is a retrofactor.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

So okay I was gonna say that'd be weird.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Okay. So a few things that it ch it kind of flips on its head is this is gonna be more of a rookie chase and a prospect chase, I believe. Of course, this will be your first chance to get a lot of these prospects in like a topp's product and find their first autograph cards, but I think ultimately people are still gonna be looking for like Cooper Flag. That's what they're really gonna want. Their Bowman rookies that we're gonna see here, they will sell for premium, not quite as high as Topps Chrome, but I think that they will sell for higher than those other tops off shoots that we've seen, like Topps Midnight and things like that. I think that's where we can expect the price to settle, just like we see with Bowman Bowman rookies for baseball. And I would also assume we don't have odds yet, but I would assume the rookie autos will be about as short printed as they are for baseball releases. So for those that are just listening, yeah, I I think that we will see that. That's that's my gut. Again, we don't have anything to actually base this on, but when you see like Bowman baseball release, the prospect autos are what you can really find. If you get a rookie auto, they're not gonna hit as much at as high of a rate as the prospect autos. I think they're parallels, they also have less parallels for the autos than the uh prospects. You would know that better than I would. Yeah, they do. But I think that the autos that you're gonna find are mostly gonna be prospects, and that that's what I would fully go into expecting. If we don't get a checklist or odds by the time there's pre-order, which we probably won't, something that you should take into account that should not deter you from buying this. Yeah. Now, I want to get into some cool things that they're gonna have. There will be the red rookie cards for the red rookie program.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

How do you like that?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

I love it. I love the red rookie program.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So the red rookie program, we saw this for the first time this year in the Bowman products that rookie cards were available. They would have the red rookie logo. There was about like one per box usually for a regular hobby box, I believe. And what it was is if that rookie won rookie of the year, and then it would be worth like$50 um in fanatics credit. It would also make them eligible for future prizes for winning things like MVP and eventually Hall of Fame status. But yeah, it's just it's just a fun chase, unless you're chasing Cade Horton and you put a bunch of money into that and you were disappointed at the end of the state.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Like you had a bad experience with the red rookie program.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

But I I like the program. There will be bets in vet autos as well. Again, these I believe will be a very tough hit. No telling who they will be yet. I would assume a similar auto checklist to Tops Chrome, maybe shorter, but I would assume those major players to be super tough to hit. How do you feel about the vet autos in this?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I mean, I saw them peep a SGA orange auto. Looks great. Have they previewed or talked about anybody else that will sign?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

I believe so. Not for vets that I've seen. No.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

I don't know. It'll be really interesting to see how they distribute the autos. I think my first reaction to what you were saying about the rookie versus the prospect or the college auto, I think it might be a little bit different, actually. Um I think you're gonna see a lot more rookies. You're not gonna see more rookies than college players, but I think the ratio is gonna be a lot slimmer than it than it is in Bowman baseball. You know, Bowman baseball, you open up a 24-auto jumbo case and you might hit one or two rookie autos. I think if it's the same thing over on, well, I guess it's two autos per hobby box, it'll probably be 12 boxes per case. So in a 24 auto hobby case, I'd bet maybe it's like half and half college versus NBA.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Another reason why I think that we're gonna see a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

No idea to tell.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

They're just speculation at this point, but I think that it'll be And don't forget we have men's and women's college basketball that both have to be represented in this. And I think they're gonna have them signing a ton. And they already have their rookies signing a ton. There's only so many cars these guys can sign, even though it seems like it's more and more every year.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And they're more expensive to the NBA guys, too. Yeah, so it wouldn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yeah, yeah. But my favorite part of this release, my favorite part of this release, we are gonna see all the case hits and the super short prints that we have seen across the Bowman products. We are gonna see etched in glass, we're gonna see retrofactors like we talked about. We're gonna see Bowman spotlights, we're gonna see crystallized anime, garbage pail kids. Maybe they'll tell us autos after all the breakers release in prices for the garbage pale kids again. But I don't care. I would love to see those. Yeah, I am so excited about all these SSP hits.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah, man. They picked the best four of the SSPs. They really did. I think GPKs are the best. I think anime is the second best, crystallize is the third best, and spotlight is the fourth best. Those are the right ones. And then, of course, you have the Etchon glass that I think for a lot of Panini collectors will resonate. And a lot of people obviously moving over that are big-time basketball collectors from Panini to Topps. That is the part that I think is most exciting as a Topps baseball and a Bowman baseball guy, is we know that Panini case hits have always done so much better than tops. You're seeing that carry over a little bit into the topp's chrome. Some of the SSPs and Topps Chrome have done really, really well, better than any Topps Chrome SSP has ever done in baseball. I think we could see an elevation of these four Bowman SSPs in the baseball because of how well the basketball ones will inevitably do. Um, and that that to me is really exciting. Maybe they could lift up Spotlight. Like Spotlight is one of the most underappreciated, underpriced cards you could find for any Bowman prospect, in my opinion. It's for a lot of reasons. But I hope that basketball can elevate that. I don't know. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I was thinking the same thing. I think that they are kind of starting with a clean slate here. Um, because as you said with Spotlight, it didn't start out as an SSP and then they realized that was the direction to go. Here they can start it however they want. They are saying it's an SSP, of course, as it should be. And hopefully they get those odds down right where it becomes a meaningful chase. But that will be that is yet to be seen, as as we know.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

It'll see how much they print of this stuff too, you know, right? Like I think it's gonna be a retail product. There's probably going to be blasters, megas, maybe hangers. Delight. Uh you're gonna see delight, you're gonna see hobby, and you're probably gonna see jumbo, just like in line, same, same as you normally see on the hobby configurations. You'll probably end up seeing a sapphire. I just hope that they keep the print run kind of in line with baseball. I hope that they don't go too far above. In fact, I hope that they come in under, but so does everybody. I don't know if that's realistic, but they printed between between Delight, Jumbo, and Hobby in 2025 Bowman Baseball, they printed an estimated 20,000 cases. I'm hoping that they keep it under 20,000. I'm hope, really hoping that they keep it like around 15,000 cases of the hobby configurations, because that stuff will be really loaded if that's the case. Um, and you know that the price tag is gonna be really high on this. Somebody asked me today, how much do you think that tops.com is gonna list this stuff for on pre-order for the two hobby, for the two auto hobby boxes, and how much do you think it's gonna be worth on release day, like on the secondary market? Without seeing a checklist or pack odds, I think it could be a 400, 450,$500 hobby box on pre-order and definitely up from there on secondary by the time release comes around. And of course, hearing those numbers, like a lot of Bowman U University collectors are gonna be like, oh, no way, right? Like, I'm not gonna be able to afford anything anymore. And I really feel for those collectors, right? Bowman University has always been an excellent value rip and pretty cheap. Like if you want to rip a personal box or even a case, like you could you can afford it. It's not gonna be the case anymore, unfortunately. The entry price, if you want to rip personals, is gonna be really, really high. I'm hoping that the way that they build the checklist that won't affect things like pick your team or pick your player prices. I hope the value equation is the same. If you're not after the NBA guys and you want to go after like, you know, one of your one of your alma mater's best players or something like that. I hope it still ends up being the same value equation, but a lot to be seen there. It just it kind of sucks that it's gonna be so much more expensive and unattainable for a lot of collectors.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yeah. So ultimately it comes down to should you buy? And if you can, if you had the means to do so, yes, it is a yes. It almost does not matter what the price is if you should attempt to buy this. I said just hope it's below 500. But I think no matter what it is, you're gonna be able to make money on it. If you are someone that really wants to rip it and you do have the means and the opportunity to actually be able to check out on tops, buy four boxes, flip three, and keep one and rip it. It'll pay for your box, probably and then some. That's just one way that you can do it. But if you're me, then you're gonna end up ripping all four. Um, but these will skyrocket on secondary. Yeah, these are gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah, as long as the print run isn't astronomical, as long as they don't do anything crazy with the auto checklists and making them way too lengthy so that it's impossible to hit any of the big names. We've seen it happen before. Look at top two 2022 Topps Chrome baseball. That's a perfect example of a good rookie class that was just diluted, watered down, terrible. They could do the same thing if they're really trying to get as much money out of the product in the short term as they can. But I feel like generally, so far, what we've seen with fanatics when they're really starting a new brand and it's that first year of a new brand, they do it right. They did it right with Tops Chrome Basketball and Tops Chrome Basketball Sapphire. I hope that they do the same thing with Bowman.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

So if you are looking to buy it, this is gonna be a sellout and a frustrating hour of mashing at cart and checkout on tops.com. It is, since it's a pre-order, they do tend to be slightly easier. This is your best chance to buy. So, and remember, with pre-orders, you have up until a week before release to cancel. So if you're on the fence, I would take the chance for sure. And uh, the only negatives that I see is it will most likely be a massive auto checklist. Also, NBA prospects, they do not have the same value and long-term prospecting as MLB guys. Just something for the predominantly baseball guys that probably listen to this podcast that might be moving to basketball that might not know too much. A basketball draft is so different than a baseball draft. Baseball draft, there are guys that you can find in later rounds that are going to eventually contribute or you can take a flyer on. Basketball, that's very rare. You don't usually see those late round guys. Usually the second round doesn't mean anything. No one really watches the second round. Not that you're watching the baseball draft typically, but you hope to have 10 to 15 guys to care about. And that's it. It's so much harder for sleepers and those late picks. So it really limits what prospect autos that you can actually get excited about or get a good value reap reselling. So those are the only negatives that I could really think of. Just something to be aware of if you're making that transition from baseball collecting to basketball.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yep. Well said.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Any any final thoughts on this Bowman basketball preview?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

No, man. I'm super excited to follow the entire thing. I'm really looking forward to seeing the pack odds so we can know production run and the checklist, of course, so we can see how long some of these auto checklists are. But it's gonna be unless they just print it to the absolute moon, this is gonna be such a fun rip, and I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

It's gonna be it's gonna be fun. There's just so many fun hits in it, and it it is gonna be massive with the number of players in there. But actually, 200 card base and 100 card prospect base isn't too bad. But yeah, well, there's a lot yet to be seen. Um definitely, yeah. All right, well, thank you everyone so much for listening for our first ever basketball preview, and it's kind of a preview of a preview, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

But we'll do more in depth, I think, when when we get some more details.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, this is the product where maybe we'll bring on a guest that knows more about basketball than me. But yeah, um we'll see how that goes. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening. This is the Juice along with Grant Salami. This is a talking cards podcast.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Thanks, Juice.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Thank you, everyone. Thanks, Bert.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Thanks, everybody.